Career move and questions for the more experienced!

[tdsuperd]

I haven't posted in some time. Been super busy changing things up. I was hauling RV's, singles. Now I'm pulling a wedge loaded with cargo trailers and finding cars for the trip back to Bristol. I love the change, its nice to have some physical work loading and unloading and of course the added money is nice:)

My questions.....

To CDL or not? I am under 26k all the time no exceptions! My truck reg. is plated at 26K. The GVWR on my truck is 12,200, and my trailer is 13,800. Pulling with a 5th wheel. Another issue is that I have three 7k axels on the trailer and even with the trailer plated at 13,800 this could be a issue, so I plan on removing a axel when I decide for sure to keep the trailer. I just got back from the NM DOt office and they said I had my bases covered. So I had them print the paper work and high-light. Is there anything I'm missing?

Other question is about insurance. I have my personal bobtail insurance for truck and trailer.... comes to 204.00 a month full coverage as I still owe on the truck and renting the trailer. My load insurance and numbers are through my broker and comes to 250.00 a month. I would think that 454.00 a month is not a bad deal, but would still like to save some money in this department if anyone has any ideas.

thanks

[Brisco]

Are you on your own or running for someone?

If contracting out, who are you contracting with to be running "Cargo Trailers" out the Bristol area?? I'm guessing Hoosier, may be wrong though, but I hauled a lot of "single" cargo trailers for Hoosier when I was there. Very easy pulls and paid the same/a little higher than the RV's did.

One thing though, I don't see how that trailer can be plated for 13,800 GVWR with those triple axles. That looks more like a 21K GVWR trailer to me.

[Brisco]

To CDL or not? I am under 26k all the time no exceptions! My truck reg. is plated at 26K. The GVWR on my truck is 12,200, and my trailer is 13,800. Pulling with a 5th wheel. Another issue is that I have three 7k axels on the trailer and even with the trailer plated at 13,800 this could be a issue, so I plan on removing a axel when I decide for sure to keep the trailer. I just got back from the NM DOt office and they said I had my bases covered. So I had them print the paper work and high-light. Is there anything I'm missing?

Just re-read this.............

Did you "register" the trailer for 13,800, or did you change the Manufacturers plate on the trailer to 13,800??

If that GVWR on the Manufacturers plate says 21K on the trailer, and your truck's GVWR is 12,200, you are actually running in the 33K range and you better have a Class "A" license. Most of the inspection stations/Troopers out there know right off hand that's a 21K GVWR trailer and will put you OOS for running without a CDL no matter what. Doesn't matter what your actual weight is, it's the combination GVWR of tow vehicle and trailer they are looking at.

Or am I wrong on this???? I always kept my combined GVWR's below 26K and never had any problems running with my CDL "C". This just looks like jail time waiting to happen. Know what I mean.

[Microsoftsteve]

your CDL class a, it doesn't matter if you plate it for 26k or not. You add the gvw of truck and trailer. There is no way your trailer is 13800 its bare minumum 18k so you're at 30k to 33k depending on your trailer. Also with 3 axles if your going to be legal you have to be IRP plated. Lastly your insurance is way off in price range. If you had a CDL class a for years maybe but you don't so I don't see how it can be so low. If so let me know your insurance agent names :)

[haulin rv]

My trailer with triple 6k axles has a gvwr of 15500.

[Dorsey]

That's a Kaufman trailer right? The one I had was around the same GVWR( can't remember exactly). Everybody thinks your GVWR is 21,000 but that's not the case. I'm sure tdsuerd is correct. And yes I guess I could of gotten into some trouble with it but never did. I was never over on my axles.

[tdsuperd]

Wow you guys are fast. Stepped away for dinner. Im at home and dinner is warm tonight with a woman across the table. I'm in heaven.

I was out for a month last time and it is taking some time to decompress.. sorry bout the rant.

The trailer was plated at 18k from kaufman. I had it re-plated through them for 13,800.. little paperwork and 25 bucks. I know the triples put me over for now. But Im rolling the dice on that one for the time being. I'm renting the trailer and plan on buying it at the end of the month. Then I will remove the front axle, but for now it must stay. I have talked to a few guys running this way and they have not had any issue, but if DOT wanted to be a stickler then they could get me there. Add my GVWR of truck and trailer get 26k. The only thing NM required was re-registering my truck for 26k.

Yes Kaufman trailer

Im leased on with GWC in Bristol..so my cargo insurance comes from there and my bobtail I found on my own.

hope this is more clear

2 visits in-side the scale houses with paper-work.... everything check out. I'm just trying to further my learning curve here. Been weighing between 23kand 25k

[Buster]

If your trailer is reg. for 10K or more OR you are over 26K and you are being paid, you are required to have a CDL.

[cosgo]

dito buster

[Strix]

If your trailer is reg. for 10K or more OR you are over 26K and you are being paid, you are required to have a CDL.

I'm a nobody and I know nothing.

Not to start a argument... but that isn't actually true according to many DOT officials I have spoken with. They have said that some states have started using this as their own "interpretation" to make more money. I know a couple states around me have the same laws on this issue. 26K and under = No CDL in these states.

I would still have a Class A if I were going to do this to be safe and smart and protected.

[Strix]

Oh and plus some insurance companies won't even talk to you if you don't have a CDL yet are going to run commercially.. legal or not.

[haulin rv]

Simple answer is don't take anything someone types on a forum as "100% correct or law". Go read your own states requirements and abide by them. I have and ran about a million miles and never had any issues with license classifications.

I can say your third axle or the "axle capacity" has nothing to do with anything. Its all gvwr and gcwr.

[Microsoftsteve]

i know federal is adding weights of the powered unit and towed unit but that's just what i have read. Not trying to be tough on you but the insurance scares me too.. Usually insurance for a 5th wheel set up puts you in a different category regaurdless if you have a class 8 or a dually.

[haulin rv]

Usually insurance for a 5th wheel set up puts you in a different category regaurdless if you have a class 8 or a dually.

What??? You must have one jacked up agent.

[Buster]

Straight from the FMCSA.

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/registration-licensing/cdl/cdl.htm

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Commercial Driver's License Program (CDL/CDLIS)
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BEFORE THE COMMERCIAL DRIVER'S LICENSE PROGRAM

It is widely recognized that driving certain commercial motor vehicles (CMVs) requires special skills and knowledge. Prior to implementation of the Commercial Driver's License (CDL) Program, in a number of States and the District of Columbia, any person licensed to drive an automobile could also legally drive a tractor-trailer or a bus. Even in many of the states that did have a classified licensing system, a person was not skills tested in a representative vehicle. As a result, many drivers were operating motor vehicles that they may not have been qualified to drive. In addition, many drivers were able to obtain driver's licenses from more than one State and hide or spread convictions among several driving records and continue to drive.

COMMERCIAL MOTOR VEHICLE SAFETY ACT OF 1986

The Commercial Motor Vehicle Safety Act of 1986 was signed into law on October 27, 1986. The goal of the Act is to improve highway safety by ensuring that drivers of large trucks and buses are qualified to operate those vehicles and to remove unsafe and unqualified drivers from the highways. The Act retained the State's right to issue a driver's license, but established minimum national standards which States must meet when issuing CDLs.

The Act addresses circumstances that existed prior to 1986 by:

making it illegal for CDL holders to possess more than one license;
requiring States to adopt knowledge and skills testing to ensure that individuals required to have a CDL are qualified to operate heavy trucks and buses
establishing minimum licensing standards and information requirements for the CDLs that States issue.
It is important to note that the Act does not require drivers to obtain a separate Federal license; it merely requires States to upgrade their existing testing and licensing programs, if necessary, to conform to the Federal minimum standards.

The CDL program places requirements on the CMV driver, the employing motor carrier, and the States.

THE DRIVER

Drivers have been required to have a CDL in order to drive certain CMVs since April 1, 1992.

The Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) has developed and issued standards for the testing and licensing of CDL holders. These standards require States to issue CDLs to certain CMV drivers only after the driver passes knowledge and skills tests, administered by the State and related to the type of vehicle the driver expects to operate. Drivers are required to obtain and hold a CDL if they operate in interstate, intrastate, or foreign commerce if they drive a vehicle that meets any of the classifications of a CMV described below.

Classes of License:

The Federal standard requires States to issue a CDL to drivers according to the following license classifications:

Class A -- Any combination of vehicles with a GCWR of 26,001 or more pounds provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.

Class B -- Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 10,000 pounds GVWR.

Class C -- Any single vehicle, or combination of vehicles, that does not meet the definition of Class A or Class B, but is either designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver, or is transporting material that has been designated as hazardous under 49 U.S.C. 5103 and is required to be placarded under subpart F of 49 CFR Part 172 or is transporting any quantity of a material listed as a select agent or toxin in 42 CFR Part 73.

Endorsements and Restrictions:

Drivers who operate special types of CMVs also need to pass additional tests to obtain any of the following endorsements on their CDL:



T - Double/Triple Trailers (Knowledge test only)
P - Passenger (Knowledge and Skills Tests)
N - Tank Vehicle (Knowledge Test only)
H - Hazardous Materials (Knowledge Test and TSA Threat Assessment)
X - Combination of Tank Vehicle and Hazardous Materials
S - School Bus (Knowledge and Skills Tests)
If a driver either fails the air brake component of the general knowledge test or performs the skills test in a vehicle not equipped with air brakes, the driver is issued an air brake restriction, restricting the driver from operating a CMV equipped with air brakes.

A driver must take the skills test in a motor vehicle which represents the type of motor vehicle that a driver applicant operates or expects to operate as defined by the vehicle classications described above. While these classifications are general for the class of vehicle, additional requirements exist for the passenger and school bus endorsements. To obtain a passenger endorsement, the driver must test in a passenger vehicle. To obtain a school bus endorsement, the driver must test in a passenger vehicle equipped with school bus features (lights, signs, etc). If a driver possesses a Class A CDL, but obtains his or her passenger or school bus endorsement in a Class B vehicle the State must place a M restriction indicating that the driver can only operate Class B and C passenger vehicle or school buses. If a driver possesses a Class B CDL, but obtains his or her passenger or school bus endorsement in a Class C vehicle, the State must place a N restriction indicating that the driver can only operate Class C passenger vehicle or school buses.

[Microsoftsteve]

Well how much are you guys paying for insurance. I've never heard of cargo and 1 million liability for that price? If hes got no cdl and a 5th wheel he'll be in the 850.00 to 1000.00 per month, am i right or not?

[shstransport]

depends on how new your truck is, depends on your credit rating depends, on your driving record, depends on how long you have had your license, and more depends. But your prices on insurance are much higher than I pay in TN. Another depend your zipcode :)

[haulin rv]

Class A -- Any combination of vehicles with a GCWR of 26,001 or more pounds provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.


Correct, if your combo is over 26k class a needed. If Under class c is ok.

A class c can also be any single vehicle up to 26k and towing a trailer 10,000 or less. Many tow and haul guys operate that way. Heck a large portion of rv haulers (commercial) run class c and stay under the 26k gcwr. Its perfectly legal. Been inspected, checked, weighed many times in my million miles and never had a single issue. Even had a comment by a Georgia Leo about 1 more pound and you'd need a class a, that was after he looked at my gvwr on the truck and trailer.

I'm not saying a class c is the way to go, I know it has cost me money having to load smaller cars to stay under 26k. But it is legal.

[haulin rv]

Well how much are you guys paying for insurance. I've never heard of cargo and 1 million liability for that price? If hes got no cdl and a 5th wheel he'll be in the 850.00 to 1000.00 per month, am i right or not?


depends on how new your truck is, depends on your credit rating depends, on your driving record, depends on how long you have had your license, and more depends. But your prices on insurance are much higher than I pay in TN. Another depend your zipcode :)

Location, location, location. Same truck, same trailer, same everything and several thousand dollars difference simply based on an address.

Again I'll say having a 5th wheel has nothing to do with anything. If anything it should be cheaper, its sure a safer way to tow. I know our insurance company never even asked, I'm 5th wheel and h2oskibumz is gooseneck and costs are very close.

Best thing is shop around, some guys pay 12k a year some pay half that. Just need to find the right agent to work for you and one that knows the industry.

[tdsuperd]

Thats the way the folks at the the DOT here in NM read it also Haulin. They high-lighted that section.

I set there for a hour waiting my turn just to ask this question. I was ready to start the CDL process, still am when I have time. I'm not trying to get away with anything here. I want all to be legit and legal, but they said my current license is legal.

We only load a couple cars to get us home.... just to pay for fuel. The load of cargo trailers is were our money is at. The only time we have weight issues with them is with a big one over the drives, so we just back them down the wedge a little. My last load was a 25fter and a 22fter, hung the last one off the back a ft and lit it up so I could back the front one down. 8800 on my drives full of fuel.

Maybe our insurance is cheaper because we have 7 trucks on the same policy? I our cargo is through Progressive and my bobtail is Great lakes insurance.

I'm in my mid 30's with a spotless record... so I'm sure that helps to

[cosgo]

Havent we all had this discussion on another board???? Whats the big deal? Go get a class A and youre covered. Why would anyone want to mess with all the hassels of which state says what?? Its no biggie, just go get an A and be done with it.

[haulin rv]

No hassles for me. To be honest getting one has been on my "to do" list for a couple years, its just a matter of getting there then getting a cdl driver to go with to take the road test.

[Microsoftsteve]

odd, having a 5th wheel from my experience with insurance agents means that you can tow more Weight. Which means more liability. For instance how much damage can a guy do with a bumper pull set up compared to a guy with a 5th wheel. :( I was told by 3 different companies that once you have a 5th wheel your category becomes different then a bumper type set up. Also i can say from experience that when I went from my f450 to my fl 60 my insurance rates didn't change, all they cared about was what type of hitch set up I had. Now being in the Atlanta area with such high crime rate I'm sure my rates are different from most here due to atlanta always being one of the highest crime cities in the usa. :(

[shstransport]

Doesn't go by crime rates goes by property value that's why NJ,NY,CA are the highest states for insurance of coarse being by a major city like Atlanta don't help you, if you where in the wilds of GA it would be cheaper. Like me I'm just outside Nashville but in the cheapest land value county most of it's agricultural surrounded by nurseries.I pay nothing for insurance compared to most guys.

[cosgo]

Some weird stuff going on here... i guess every state has its own perks/downfalls. ive never heard of a fifth wheel costing more than a bumper pull for insurance. You can do just as much damage, reak just as much havoc, and have just as big a claim. Heck, my cousin pulls a 38' bumper pull stacker that cost him 100k, compared to my 16k step deck. his claims could be just as high, if not higher than mine, but our insurance is virtually identical. Guess Illinois is good for something.. =)

[Microsoftsteve]

Yes I'm feeling cheated :( But I'm moving to Washington soon hopefully things will get better. Hell I'm moving to an island with a population of 800 during the winter and 2000 during the summer. If I don't get better rates there somethings wrong.:confused: But I agree with the idea of just getting a CDL Class A and being safe. Less hassle's, haul what your willing to Irp your set up at and go make money.:eek:

[Brisco]

Yes I'm feeling cheated :( But I'm moving to Washington soon hopefully things will get better. Hell I'm moving to an island with a population of 800 during the winter and 2000 during the summer. If I don't get better rates there somethings wrong.:confused:

What nobody pointed out to you is that "Super" is not running under his own authority. He's running under someone elses. The only insurance he's paying out of pocket for is his normal truck insurance and the "Bobtail - Unladen" insurance that most of the RV "brokers-carriers" require their drivers to have.

Either that, or, he said there's 7 trucks running for this guy he's running for and this guy has taken his monthly "Insurance Costs" and divided it by 7 with each driver paying their part.

Looks a little "High" to me for someone running under someone elses authority though. My average insurance costs for both my '04 and '07 Duallys was about $1600 a year with $500K coverage. (100-300-100) I had a "Delivery Use" addendum added to my personal policy. My "Bobtail-Unladen" policy costs $50 a month and both Hoosier & Quality just deducted that 50 bucks from my settlements once a month.

[Microsoftsteve]

Brisco thanks for the input, now I don't feel so bad. :)

[bth9461]

Yes I'm feeling cheated :( But I'm moving to Washington soon hopefully things will get better. Hell I'm moving to an island with a population of 800 during the winter and 2000 during the summer. If I don't get better rates there somethings wrong.:confused: But I agree with the idea of just getting a CDL Class A and being safe. Less hassle's, haul what your willing to Irp your set up at and go make money.:eek:

If you are hauling cars I think Rates will get worse for you, moving to a remote area. Your DH will increase greatly. Also I did a quick search for WA and GA going to ALL areas on CD. About 300 loads for WA and 400 for GA. when I put a .50 PM min on the searchs WA dropped to 39 loads GA had 157.

That does not include any loads near Atlanta either in TN,SC,AL.

If you haul LTL from load boards it will also be worse. No people equals no freight. Your best chance no matter what you haul, is to find a direct Customer base (for a small truck that means a specialty), then the remoteness might work in your favor, because someone might be willing to pay for quality and reliable service.

The Spot market will most likely put you in a more trucks than loads situation most of the time, thus leading to a depressed Rate in general.