Rough Stop...

[Tony]

Think I'm finished. I'll fill in more when I get home.

[Tony]

http://kdka.com/local/Turnpike.pile.up.2.1502490.html

http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/beaver/22598217/detail.html

http://www.wpxi.com/news/22598404/detail.html

[Dorsey]

Sorry to hear about that. Guess you are alright though? The more I travel the more I like Florida.

[SWFLA]

WTH happened??? I just seen that truck in person???

I hope everyone is ok looks like a mess

wait a minute, let me get this straight, you are at a major crash and you're roadside on your laptop updating the forum???

[Tony]

no, I'm 2 hours out of the hospital in a hotel waiting for my flight home.
crash was at 11EST last night. Or are you trying to be funny?

[run2trouble]

WOW! Glad you are ok.

[haulin rv]

Glad your ok!

[Haul-A-Round]

thankfull your ok . man you have insurance on the rig , blow that off and take care of yourself Tony.

[ra57.2008]

Well Tony at least you are ok bruised I'm sure but ok. Take care of yourself.

[G4 Transport]

Glad your ok Tony

[2stick]

Good to here your ok but your right, the truck for sure is done.

[h2oskibumz]

Tony,

When it gets right down too it, the truck was just a hunk of tin. A tool for making a living. Tools can be replaced. You, sir, cannot.

I hate to see it destroyed, and I'm not trying to minimize its loss, but looking at the carnage makes one beleive you went for one hell of a ride and are very lucky not to have been seriously hurt or worse.

I'm glad you were not hurt worse than an overnight stay in the hospital...

Heal quickly, and if there is something I can do for you, please don't hesitate to let Haulinrv or I know.... Ron

[Dutch]

Holy Frijole !!! Glad to hear your ok ! Dutch.

[Tony]

Made it home last night. The first "sleep" was last night. And all I can say is... "I miss yesterday" since the pain wasn't nearly as bad. Since I've finished the ole peeing in a cup routine, I'm thinkin its time to go get the pain meds outta the way.

I've already overdone the ibuprofen, but damn... I can barely move. The wife is taking today off work and going to start calling a maxiofacial surgeon.

Next post will be somewhat of a description of what happened.

[Tony]

Location: Barrisville, PA I-76 Eastbound, 17 milemarker, approx 200 feet past Glendale Road overpass. 65MPH Speed Limit
Road: downhill grade (approx 3-4deg), right curve.
Conditions: Clear, recent light snowfall but road "APPEARED DRY"
Time: 10:00-10:15CST (11pm Local)
The past 10 miles appeared as if the road was dry and the truck had traction at all times. Previous to that, the road had been wet and truck still had traction. Temperatures did not vary much between 28-32 degrees throughout that segment of the trip.

Traveling behind a 53ft Van at a safe distance. We were both traveling approximately 55mph as we had climbed the hill. There was another truck a few seconds back. As we began coming down the hill, the road curved to the right. The truck in front tapped his brakes and I did the same to put more distance between us. Immediately after, the truck ahead locked them up and his trailer began to slide. I put on the brakes, and started to slow. But my truck started to slide when I got a few feet farther. Speed was somewhere between 52-58mph from what I figure since we were previously at a maximum of 58mph. My truck started sliding, but

(more in a few) customer just called, gotta tell him his benz is history.
(k, where was I?)

My truck started sliding, and heading into the passing lane. Thats where I needed to go anyway... my "way out" (since there was a huge embankment on the right). So a slightly pull to the left... nothing. The truck barely moved left... but then I saw it... I see another trailer, stopped. I did catch that there were two side-by-side. but at that time, I told my passenger.... "We're going to hit", and thats all I could say because my ass puckered and I was already praying. Less than a second and we were into the back of the semi trailer. The truck was dark, glass dust in the air. But strangely enough... I did not close my eyes and saw everything the impact had to show me. I saw it all, and the images are now (a day later) replaying in my head.

I immediately knew that we were not safe and had to get out of the truck, there was traffic behind us. Then I felt it. Huge bang in the back and the hood came even closer to my face. Screaming at my passenger to get the fuck out. I elbowed the door glass and thankfully it did shatter and started climbing out and tugging my passenger behind me. As we came out of the truck, more impacts from the rear.

NOTE
I have a reminder for those involved in this type of accident. If you are able, DO NOT WAIT IN THE VEHICLE. In car accidents, you are told to stay in the car and wait for "rescue personnel" to come get you. But in this case... that trailer is going to come after you. You may think you are a "big truck", but realize you face the same danger as a little car sandwiched between the trucks. Get out.

[Tony]

(reserved)

[cosgo]

Tony, if u need somethng, just call.

Angelo

[2stick]

Man, sounds like your messed up worse then I thought.I dont see any air bags in the photos. If I can help in any way let me know. (*** *** ****)

[Tony]

Since my insurance company is now also watching this thread(as well as RAT, one of the brokers), I'm going to post a bit of extra info here. I do not want the customers trying to gouge my insurance, so I've investigated the values of the vehicles involved.
I've contacted the respective sellers of the vehicles to get the purchase prices. 1 being an auction and the other being an ebay seller.
1997 Mercedes 280-class. Ebay. Seller is in Munster, IN. $2100
2006 Ford 450 Commercial (DHL Van). Dyer Auto Auction (OVE Sales), Dyer, IN. $7700

[haulin rv]

Tony you've got my number, if you need anything.

[Brisco]

Was in an accident similar to this years ago. I didn't hit another vehicle though. I hit a "berm" on the side of a dried out watering hole at about 60-70 mph after being run off the highway by a drunk driver who was probably doing 100+ mph. Was in a Ford Focus wagon, the hit moved the whole engine compartment up 3 feet and to the right 2 feet. Almost same hit you just had by looking at the way your roof has buckled above the passenger area, just in a smaller car and not in a heavy duty truck.

The airbags did go off, you can see it in that one picture taken outside the drivers door.

Trust me, your pain has just started. ;) It may be couple of more days until the full onslaught takes effect. Then it's going to last for about a week, and the soreness will be there for another month or so. Not trying to scare ya here, just letting you know what to look out for.:D

What hit you from behind?? I can tell the Mercedes was probably on the ass end and it looks like another 18 wheeler rear-ended you. Have any pictures of the loads aftermath?

You'll be fine, after the pain subsides of course. ;) You'll also be leary for the next year or two after this. You'll be watching everything (mirrors, what's in front of you, on your sides, etc) almost obsessively until you get over the "jitters" that this accident are going to cause.

[Tony]

Posted all the pictures from the Blackberry into the gallery.
http://www.autoexpeditor.com/gallery/browseimages.php?c=7

Accident happened approx: 10:30pm CST.
First pic taken after everyone was verified alive and out of harms way, and traffic already stopped for miles(so we knew we weren't going to be hit again). Pic timestamp: 10:44pm CST

[Brisco]

I've already overdone the ibuprofen, but damn... I can barely move.

Get off the Ibuprofen!!! IB is a stomach irritant in itself. You are probably not eating right right now and your system is an uproar due to your pain and nerves.

I started out on IB after my wreck, but after a couple of days of having stomach pains on top of my wreck pains, my doctor prescribed another pain reliever other than IB. (Can't remember now) I started eating better once I got off the Ibuprofen and my stomach pains went away. Wreck pains were still there, just the double whammy was gone. (the pains the IB were causing)

Just a hint, OK!!

[Tony]

The mercedes was part of my load as well as the Yellow DHL truck. A International carrying 18k in his reefer is what hit.

As far as the airbags... no, they are still intact. I had to crawl in the cab when DOT forced me to obtain all of my paperwork. I had to crawl into the cab with a crowbar to pry open the glovebox to get my cabcard, etc.
The driver airbag was still in the steering wheel and the passenger dash was in 1 piece with no airbag. Anything white you may see is either hood or fender remnants.

[Tony]

I started eating better once I got off the Ibuprofen


lol, can't eat... hole in my lower lip/jaw and to many stitches. currently too painful to eat. but slowly swallowing jello though.

Thx for the advice.

[Brisco]

Dang, I stand corrected! Airbags didn't go off and the DHL truck was on the ass end!:o

That truck pushed everything up when it hit. :eek:

Looks like the sensors for the airbags in the front bumper were avoided altogether. What an odd hit.

Sorry about the stitches and not being able to eat. You didn't say anything about that til now. Sent the wife to the store for some straws yet? :D

Just kidding...........

Try to suck on some "Ensure". I know you're not at that age yet, but they are good for people that can't eat solid foods due to stuff like this you're going through right now.

[smr500]

Glad to see you're back home, buddy.

[Buster]

Tony, you and I have talked on the phone. I am very sorry to see you going through this. Call for ANY reason!
Just for some humor,.... Got any spare parts for sale????lol

[Tony]

Tony, you and I have talked on the phone. I am very sorry to see you going through this. Call for ANY reason!
Just for some humor,.... Got any spare parts for sale????lol

lol, I was thinking the same thing about the parts. but um.... dont think anything will be useful. LOL, slightly used turbo for sale, lemme dig it out of the firewall! used radiator? might need a leak check! :D

but on another note... my hitch plate... still perfectly straight
its still got the kingpin tube in the jaws of the 5th wheel which is bent a bit... but my plate is perfect unbent and no weld cracks anywhere (yes, I checked closely)
lol, wonder if the hitch plate is what kept the truck frame together ;)

Note for PJ owners.... check that tube holder closely. I didnt see any weld issues at all, but now I'm wondering about the correct thickness of the tube meant to hold the gn/kingpin tubes... got me wondering. might have to send one of you guys past the wrecking yard its all at just north of Pittsburg, PA if anyone is going that way anytime soon.

[smr500]

Looks like a big wedgie created by the semi's. The eating with a straw thing sucks. I had to do it for 6 weeks when I was 17. Rodeo injury, at the Dr. visit when they cleared me to eat solid food I weighed in at 103 lbs.

[Tony]

yeah.... not to mention the big Wedgie in my pants! I'm still puckered ;)

and thank you all for the well wishes. It really shows the type and character of the people that are around here. You guys show the best of all of us and I am proud to call you all my friends.

Thank you all

[Tony]

The fire department sent me pictures. I requested them this morning and they we're happy to send them over.

Here's more of the carnage....
http://www.autoexpeditor.com/gallery/browseimages.php?c=8

[Haul-A-Round]

Tony , I beleive PJ trailers buys those complete weld on gooseneck couplers and tubes from redneck just like we all do. the king pin on a pipe is also an orderd item. those are 30k couplers.

[SWFLA]

Tony. Did you have workmanship issues with your pj trailer?

[Tony]

I do not consider a workmanship issue with my trailer currently. I have had a lot of time to think about everything that had resulted from this incident and will post thoughts later. Especially since it replays over and over in my head almost every time I close my eyes. But that is for a later update... But here's another update.

Last night I received a call at approximately 11PM CST from a number i did not recognized. A quick 'google' and saw that it was a PA number. But by the time I traced back to PA, the voicemail indicator on my phone lit up. Checked voicemail... PA State Trooper requesting a call back. I'm thinking 'this can't be good' and wondered what it could be about at this hour.

After some phone tag, we finally connected around 11:20. He was the trooper in charge at the scene. The reason the call was so late, he worked 3rd shift.

He had been contacting all of the other drivers involved to get their statement as to what happened. I was 4th to get a call after Navajo driver, Ward driver, and the RTC driver.

I relay to him the sequence of events as well as try to put a time frame to it. Which was extremely difficult due to the nature of it all. But he said that was understandable. What was interesting was that the RTC driver had said that I had hit him before my impact with the Ward truck.

Now here's the interesting/funny part... He had no photos of the scene AT ALL! In our discussion, he found out that I had camera phone pictures and also had obtained the fire department photos. Instead of providing the photos directly to him, I gave him the internet location of the photos on the fire departments server where they allowed me to download them.

We went through the photos one by one, which I sometimes had to explain what he was seeing and help him identify some of the trucks. As we continued through the photos and him trying to figure out the sequence of events, he immediately realized (and verbally spoke) that "there was no physical way you could have touched the other truck". Duh... the size of my truck, I'd have known and it would have changed the ending position of my truck. Also, there would be some sort of markings on my trailer or truck from that so-called hit.

So after almost an hour on the phone, my photos proved to be more valuable than phone calls. Also, it served to prove a few holes in some of the other drivers stories as well. I am not trying to discredit another driver, but instead to provide an accurate depiction of what happened.

I will be first to admit that my first drawing of ending truck layout was incorrect in regards to the RTC truck as well as the additional distance that the Navajo truck travelled. But in a general sense, the positions of the other truck that are important to the state of my truck are good enough.

In seeing the pictures there is more of a story to be told by them. I will share what I have placed together as time and my emotional state permit.

Note: The tandems in front of the ward truck which are on the other side of the divider... came from the Navajo truck in front. They were taken off by the ward truck further up the hill from their previous tangle with each other.

[h2oskibumz]

Note: The tandems in front of the ward truck which are on the other side of the divider... came from the Navajo truck in front. They were taken off by the ward truck further up the hill from their previous tangle with each other.

I just read 1/2 your post and then spent 20 minutes looking at the pictures trying to figure out who that axle belonged to!! I figured out who's axle (the red/orange paint consitent w/ Navajo's color scheme on the axle gave it away) I just couldn't figure out how in the world it ended up on the other side of the Ward truck AND the other side of the barrier (based on the ending positions of those front 2 trucks.)

I guess I should have finished reading the post.

I hope you are starting to feel a little better.

[Tony]

btw... be prepared for more site traffic...
Trying to get some opinions on this lack of airbags and anti-lock from other forums

[Brisco]

btw... be prepared for more site traffic...
Trying to get some opinions on this lack of airbags and anti-lock from other forums

The airbag issue I somewhat get. I do believe the 2 sensors that set off the airbags are integrated into the 2 framerails that the bumper is attached to. They're set in that area to keep them from popping the airbags in a minor 20-30mph bumper to bumper mishap. Now, anything above that mph, the impact is going to go much further into the truck greatly increasing the possibility of driver/passenger injuries and the airbags are there for that extra protection.

Like I said above, your hit is one of those oddball hits. Looks like your initial impact was well above the bumper line and closer to your headlight area, thus missing those 2 sensors altogether. Now if you had been going a little faster and hit that truck at higher rate of speed forcing your front bumper into the rear wheels or axles of that truck, then I think the airbags would have deployed then.

I remember an accident years and years ago that was also similar to yours. It happened outside of Decatur Texas. A guy in a 4 door Honda Accord ran up under a 16 ft box truck on 287. The box truck was on the shoulder with his hazards on and for some reason the guy was on the shoulder running the 60-65 mph speed limit. When the guy in the Accord hit that truck his bumper was low enough to go under that safety frame on the back of that box. He hit it so hard that it pushed the hood into the dash and then the dash and steering wheel into the guys chest basically cutting him in half. It also knocked that truck up about 50 feet. Airbags did not go off in that Accord in that accident either, not like they would have saved his life anyways. But, there was a big controversy over why the airbags were still intact after that horrendous crash that lead to a lawsuit against Honda, of which I still think is in the court system today almost a decade later.

As far as the anti-lock braking system, that's a whole other issue. There is still controversy over anti-lock brakes. Me, personally, don't like them. I know on my Chevrolet Silverados I have owned over the years the anti-lock brakes suck on gravel roads and wet roads. Can't tell you how many times I have had to brake hard (not goofing around either!!) on a gravel or wet road only to have no control of my truck and my brakes fighting back at me. Some of you here probably know what I'm talking about, that pulsating of the brakes and the feeling of the brake pedal trying to push back on your foot. Weird feeling to someone that was brought up without anti-lock brakes on their vehicles and then some new technology that is supposed to make your truck safer makes them more leary when driving their truck. Kind of defeats the purpose doesn't it.

I do know a lot of Law Enforcement Agencies all over this country order their new units, whether it be Ford, Chevrolet, or Dodge, from the manufacturers WITHOUT anti-lock brakes. These Law Enforcement Officers go through 10 times the training in different driving conditions than the average Joe does and if they DO NOT want anti-lock braking systems on their equipment, why are the manufacturers forcing the American consumer to have them on their vehicles??? A little bit of unwanted/unneeded "Government" regulations here??

I hope others from other walks of life do join in with this discussion. It'll make some interesting conversations come about over this wreck you were just in. ;)

[Tony]

I don't have enough energy to reply in detail to your post Brisco, but to rebut a bit. Speed was 50mph+ and the frame was completely crushed/bent. The hooks were embedded into the rear tandems of his trailer. The ICC bar from his trailer was tangled within the mess of the front of my truck, which they removed before I got my pictures. There was not a "too low" situation as the frame rails and sensors are well above the ICC bar height. Plus with the momentum of the vehicle, there should be no cause for Dodge's 'Multi Stage' system to not operate.

If I'm not mistaken, the impact speed for deployment is 15mph at its lowest velocity. Any of the impacts into the frame... initial impact, rear 2x impacts were directly to the frame. If it were a body only impact, I wouldn't be typing this. The frame crush absorbed a good majority of the impact energy, including the 2 hits in the back once the trailer got buried into the frame.

[smr500]

Those air bags should have deployed..end of story. With a hit of that force and the front of the frame rails pushed back as seen in the pics there is no question. Air bag sensors detect G force also so they do not need direct contact in an accident. Hell, front air bags can /have gone off in side impacts. There is absolutley no way in a crash like this that they shouldn't have gone off. This is a 100% malfunction...er..no function.

[smr500]

One other thing..these Dodge 5500's sit high in the front end, the whole cab for that matter. I have one (same year) and it is difficult to get into. I have to pull myself up with the oh sh#t handle.

[Tony]

Interesting find...

I wonder if, since its a Dodge vehicle there would be additional monitoring or if the additional data would be stored in the PCM/Body module.


The Cummins ECM contains the three most recent “Sudden Deceleration Events.” These events are triggered when the wheel speed changes, either decelerating or accelerating by 9 miles per hour in one second. Each event contains one minute of data before the incident and 15 seconds of data after the incident.
The Cummins ECM captures the following data elements in one-second intervals:
* Wheel speed (mph)
* Engine speed (rpm)
* Engine load (percent)
* Throttle position (percent)
* Brake status (on/off)
* Clutch status (on/off)
* Cruise control status (on/off)
* Lamp status (on/off)


Update: I've some located information. The event data should be recorded in the ACM(Airbag Control Module). According to a vendor for a product used to read this information, the data is available with a few notes for MY2007+ 3500,4500, & 5500...
"Crash data is recorded for FRONTAL DEPLOYMENTS ONLY on these vehicles."
"When collecting data thru the DLC connector, these ACMs require the vehicle’s ignition key to be switched on."
I wonder how they would propose reading the data with the key on if the whole front of the truck is gone(in this case) and the ACM would have power.
In my case, the batteries still have power, but are not supplying power to the truck. My sleeper and my radios are connected direct to the battery which still operated after the incident. But the dash, etc was completely dead as well as no operation of dome/map lights.

Also...
"The ACM(Airbag Control Module) contains large capacitors that are included with the air bag installation. The purpose of those modules was to fire the air bags from the electrical energy stored in the capacitors in the event that impact damages took the vehicle's battery out of service early in the collision sequence."

Sorry, couldn't sleep this morning so I figured it would be best to be informed on these things. Use my time wisely.

Update 6:55am: The most recent version of bosch diagnostics hardware and software now connects directly to the ACM which removes the second note for Dodge trucks and no longer requires "key on" to read the codes.
List of Vehicles Supported (http://www.boschdiagnostics.com/dsoftware/CDR_v3.4_Vehicle_Coverage_List_R1_0_1.pdf) (pdf 215k)

[Tony]

From the body builder guide...


Since the crash sensing of the air bag system (if installed) or seat belts is tuned, in part, to the front bumper. No modifications or additions to the bumper (i.e. bumper-mounted racks or guards) are permitted.


The Air Bag Diagnostic Module is located under the instrument panel on the forward end of the transmission tunnel, and is covered by a plastic trim cover.

Kinda points out what the air bags are tuned to... which tells me since the bumper is where the engine should be... should have definitely hit those sensors.

[h2oskibumz]

So if the bags do NOT deploy, the data is not saved? That seems like a major oversight... It completely loses any opportunity to find out why they failed to deploy when they clearly should have. Bummer.

[Haul-A-Round]

covers the mfgs. butt.

[Tony]

I'm on the phone with Dodge. We'll see how far that goes.

I would prefer seeing airbags in this event. Seems I would have MUCH less painful injuries when compared to what I have now. Broken nose is acceptable... had plenty of those, much less painful.

[Brisco]

HHmmmm..........

Do a Google search using "Dodge Faulty Airbags", "Dodge Airbag Problems+Compaints", or any other combination you can think of and see what you find.

I just spent about 30 minutes doing this. Seems like Chrysler/Dodge has had faulty airbags on vehicles for years and years. Main 2 Dodge vehicles I have read about are on Dodge Neons and the "Ram" series pickups. Many people all over the country have suffered injuries in vehicle accidents that could have been avoided if the airbags had gone off. And these aren't 15mph accidents either. I read one accident where a guy ran smack dab into the rear end of another pickup at 45-50 mph while in his Ram 1500. Both vehicles totalled, and he had 87 stitches all across his face and nose. Injuries that could have been avoided if the airbags had gone off. And get this, when he contacted a couple of Attorneys over this, none of them wanted to take on a fight like this due to the costs that would have occurred going against a giant such as Chrysler/Dodge.

It's really going to be interesting to see what happens here. I had another theory on why the airbags didn't go off. Maybe the power was cut well before the sensors were hit since it was such a high original hit, but after reading about the "stored power in the capacitors" to prevent this from happening, that theory went out the window. :cool:

[Haul-A-Round]

we've picked up I don't know how many over the years when running a wrecker service that never deployed the bags during a front impact crash. we've only been out of the wrecker business about 16 months. to much blood and guts !

[ozo]

Thank God the front of the PJ hit your drives AND the white and blue Int'l didn't hit you square on. Hell of an impact to bend the rim like that on your drive tire.

[CJC]

Just got off the phone with my buddy (the passenger). Glad the both of you are in one piece.

[Brisco]

Here's an interesting recall concerning Chrysler Minivans.

http://www.newsomelaw.com/blog/2010/02/26/chrysler-launches-safety-campaign-solve-defective-airbag-problem

http://www.aboutlawsuits.com/chrysler-airbag-problems-impact-minivans-8523/

Might be worth a look. If the "Ice-Snow-Salt-Cold Weather" is affecting the sensors in Mini-Vans, who's to say that it wouldn't affect the sensors in ALL Chrysler/Dodge products???

Know what I mean.

[Buster]

For those of you who don't know, Tony has had a bit of a set back in his recovery. Some of the trauma he suffered during his accident did not present itself untill just a few days ago. It may be awhile before we here from him. He will be recovering slowly. I, for one, wish him all the best and as painless and quick recovery as possible.

Tony, You know how to contact me. If there is anything I can do, CALL!!!

[short stack]

i sure hope all is well. as with the rest of you, all i have is yours to help out when needed.
mark

[haulin rv]

Sorry to hear that. Like I said before if there is anything I can do just give me a call.

[2stick]

Dangit Buster, I was waiting to hear a little better news than that. I was kinda hopeing no news was good news.

[Brisco]

Any updates on Tony??

I know after my accident, there was like a 2 week period of pure hell due to the all over pain I was experiencing.

Hopefully things are on the uspwing by now. :)

[Haul-A-Round]

Tony I hope all goes well and you have a good recovery. if we can do anything at all for you please call .

[ColoradoRVHauler]

I just found this thread. Tony I really hope you will be ok. Incredible accident. Prayers for your family..

Carey

[Buster]

Update
I just spoke with Tony. Without going into personnel details, Tony is recovering slowly. He will continue to be unavailable for the next 2 weeks. In the mean time he requests that if you have questions or issues please contact me (Lee) via (PM for number) . I will do the best I can at assisting you. I will not be discussing Tony's Injuries or personnel issues. This is for Tony to do when he is able. Tony asked me to relay his appreciation for all your best wishes and told me that they are helping him to recover. Please do not try to contact Tony until he has announced his return. It is difficult for him to talk but even more difficult not to.

Thanks, Lee aka Buster

[G4 Transport]

man Buster that sucks, I hope everything goes ok for him, I've never met most of you, but it still feels like family here, and it just gives you a sick feeling when it hits close to home, you guys be safe on the road out there, we are getting hit a little with some slick roads in Wyoming right now, with possible big storm coming Monday, get better Tony

[SWFLA]

He sounded like he was in rough shape before he got home, didn't sound like the original hospital he went to was much more than a back hills clinic type operation

hopefully in IL he has had better doc's and has a fast recovery