Dodge Clutch

[haulin rv]

Well where do I start....

First off my truck is an 07 so it had a dual mass flywheel.

Ok I had the flywheel just about fail, and had the clutch, pressure plate, and flywheel replaced. It was replaced with a solid mass flywheel clutch assembly sourced from napa. I put about 300 miles on it and it began to chatter, it got pretty bad so they replaced it. Well again as soon as the second one got hot and had a load on, it began to chatter. Its now so bad that backing up loaded is almost not an option.

So here is my question should I go back to a stock assembly ($1200)? I also called the guys at South Bend Clutch, they recommend a dual disk set up, buts its $1400. Now I will get my original $600 back from Napa.

Oh and the Napa kit comes pre-assembled and installs like a torque converter so I know they did not warp it assembling it.

So what do you guys think??

[ccoop769]

Im all automatic but i say sb or valair. Hear nothing but good from either company. Plus the couple extra hundred for that much better of a product is worth it imho. How many miles you got now???? And how many was on it when you replaced the clutch your first time??

[Tony]

Well where do I start....

First off my truck is an 07 so it had a dual mass flywheel.

Ok I had the flywheel just about fail, and had the clutch, pressure plate, and flywheel replaced. It was replaced with a solid mass flywheel clutch assembly sourced from napa. I put about 300 miles on it and it began to chatter, it got pretty bad so they replaced it. Well again as soon as the second one got hot and had a load on, it began to chatter. Its now so bad that backing up loaded is almost not an option.

So here is my question should I go back to a stock assembly ($1200)? I also called the guys at South Bend Clutch, they recommend a dual disk set up, buts its $1400. Now I will get my original $600 back from Napa.

Oh and the Napa kit comes pre-assembled and installs like a torque converter so I know they did not warp it assembling it.

So what do you guys think??

Call my guys at the shop... PM if you don't remember the number. I think they might have your clutch sitting on a shelf collecting some dust from someone who ordered but failed to pay/pickup. Check with them first.

The dual disc that I had on my 3500 felt like it would last forever. Rated for tractor pulls, so it grabbed really well. But when running sans-trailer, it was kind of interesting as there is no "feathering" the clutch for a slooth let-off. But it yanked 4-cars around like nothing. :D

[haulin rv]

I'm just more worried about slow speed backing.

I've got the #, should I ask for anyone?

[haulin rv]

Im all automatic but i say sb or valair. Hear nothing but good from either company. Plus the couple extra hundred for that much better of a product is worth it imho. How many miles you got now???? And how many was on it when you replaced the clutch your first time??

221k now. It had just under 200k on it when the first one was put in and just under 210k for the second.

[Tosch88]

I had the heavy duty SB (I believe the 3560 "sled puller")which chattered a lot when backing and taking off slow. Very poor driveability unloaded but could handle anything I threw at it and when I put a new trans in it the clutch looked like new with 80k worth of tow miles on it. That was on my 07 quad cab.
The next truck to get a SB was my 07 Cab & chassis. I went with the 3250 Sb for a better clutch feel. It is the cheaper of the two SB dual disk clutches. This was a great clutch. No chatter when backing or taking off, clutch felt almost stock, hardly any noise at idle (clutch rattle) and was still pulling strong with 60k on it when I sold the truck. Both trucks got the hydro upgrade.

[haulin rv]

The guys at SB recommended the 3250 too.

[Tony]

I'm just more worried about slow speed backing.

Isn't your truck 4x4? It it's really a worry, do what I always did with double/triple hay wagons... put it in 4L and back away in 1st
4L is great for backing, the lower ratio allows you to just let off the clutch and back up... don't even worry about those embarrasing "oops" stalls either :D


I've got the #, should I ask for anyone?

Slow backing was never an issue. That clutch was awesome when under load, but a bit rough without a trailer. Doesn't matter which one you speak to, they're brothers and you'll get the same answers outta both of them. :)

[haulin rv]

My trucks a 2wd.

I'll give them a call this morning.

[Tony]

My trucks a 2wd.

I'll give them a call this morning.

Not open today or tomorrow... they had to work thru xmas, so they're taking today off in exchange :)

Call monday.

[haulin rv]

I left them a message.

[ColoradoRVHauler]

Call me haulin. I know the problem. 719-429-0768

Its a long story and I dont have time to do a write up. I had the same problem.

Carey

[ColoradoRVHauler]

I will be away at 630-730pm mtn time tonight. Other than that I'll be up till after midnight. Call me anytime, ok. No worries Ok.

Carey

[haulin rv]

Found this on the napa page...

2007 Dodge Truck Ram 3500 Mega Cab 1 Ton - Pickup
Engines : 5.9 L 359 CID L6 Cummins Diesel
Comments: Disc Size: 13"-10-1 3/8";w/ 6 Speed Transmission;w/ Aluminum Case;G56 Transmission;Optional Solid Flywheel Replacement For DMF;Kit Includes Flywheel;Optional Aftermarket Non Self-Adjusting Design;Requires Use of Original Equipment Crankshaft-to-Dual Mass Flywheel Adaptor
Per Car Qty: 1

[ColoradoRVHauler]

After we talked I looked up on napas site and seen that too. Hmm Now what? Id call the mechanic and ask if he remembers seeing the adpater or possibly it could have came off with the old flywheel.

My adapter was hard pressed onto the end of the crank. Is it possible that since your new flywheel needs the adapter and doesnt have it the flywheel is moving around on the crank?

The napa flywheel is the only one Ive ever seen that is machined to accept the adapter. Valair and South bend require the adapter to be removed.

I dont know Haulin. Let us know what the mechanic says.

Something else to check. If the snout that the TO bearing rides on is worn, it will cause a misalignment too.

A lose carrier bearing will magnify any clutch problems also.

A binding ujoint will cause a chatter too.

Carey

[haulin rv]

Well its got to be something with the clutch, I didn't have an issue until it was installed. I did get under there and check ujoints, center support, trans mount etc and all seemed fine.

I'll talk to them tomorrow if I get back in time, if not it'll be Tuesday.

[ColoradoRVHauler]

On your ujoints you have to remove the shaft and make sure the joints are not bound up.

I made 185k on my rear and my rear most joint had rusted tight. I replaced them all and had it pro balanced. I also put in a HD carrier bearing then.

Im now noticing a slight driveline vibration at 45mph. I pull the front shaft in the summer. I bet my front shaft has around 200k on it. Its prolly about due up for a redo.

Its got to be how the flywheel is mated with the crank. Id want to make sure the DMF adapter mates good and tight with your new flywheel. Just a slight wobble will cause all sorts of chatter. If the snout that the TO bearing rides on is worn on one side, it will make the TO bearing depress the clutch crooked. I had to relace mine last time I was in there. They were on natl backorder at the time. I got the last one in the western US so I was told. I think it was like 60 bucks. I plan to replace that snout if there is any wear at all no that I know its a cheap thing to replace.

Let us know Haulin.

Carey

[haulin rv]

No news right now. My local Napa is bordering on failure and is broke. So I'm likely going to get screwed. So hopefully it'll last a bit longer and I'll just do it myself. Unless I can just get rid of it, but thats doubtful.

So much for supporting the local guy, I'm going back to mail order.

[haulin rv]

Oh and I spent about an hour on the phone with Precision and there only guess is on both installs they over lubricated the input shaft and contaminated the disk??

[ColoradoRVHauler]

Oh and I spent about an hour on the phone with Precision and there only guess is on both installs they over lubricated the input shaft and contaminated the disk??

lol I highly doubt that one. But yeah they will play everything they can.

I hope it hangs in ther for ya ok Haulin.

I bet youd love to have a different truck with what you are now doin.

Carey

[haulin rv]

Well the Napa guys are supposed to refund me the original cost of the clutch tomorrow and then I will order one and they will install it.

I'd love to have a different truck, a 5500 would be great but I'm just not sure I want another Dodge. And going to big also worries me.

[haulin rv]

Well the 3rd clutch is being installed today. I bought a South Bend Clutch 3250 double disk set up. It's good for 550-650 hp and 1100 torque so it should be good for a stocker pulling a load. Heck if I quit hauling I could hot rod the truck now too.

[haulin rv]

Well found out it has a torn up input shaft retainer. Which is not available from Dodge (out of stock and none on order). So its call and hope one of the handful of dealers that show one actually do. Oh and it just shy of $200. The other possible issue is what appears to be a bunch of stress cracks in the case itself, they may be casting but we'll clean it tomorrow and see.

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x297/haulin-rv/6c529d07.jpg

[Tosch88]

All the cases look like that. Shitty casting company. I hope you are going to replace the bearings in the trans because the input cluster gear bearing doesn't last long. That gear (actually gears) is over $1200 bucks. Also look at the bearing for 6th gear as these get worn & will cause 6th gear to fail. I have replaced all the said above parts in 2 transmissions that had 120k to 220k (although driven by employee's). The said part is you can't really hear the bearings going bad. Good choice on the clutch (pricey but bulletproof). I ran them in all three of my trucks & never had a problem. Just some food for thought as I put a clutch in one of mine & the bearings went bad 15k later (probably where already bad) & took out a input cluster. Good Luck!

[ColoradoRVHauler]

Ive noticed a problem with mine today. Only under a load when accelerating Im getting like a rubbing sound. The trans seems noisier going down the highway too. Its a metalic noise. The noise comes and goes while going slow. Then at highway speed it the same noise except very fast. It for sure the clutch or tranny. I can accelerate and hold the brakes and it is worse. Its the speed of the driveline. All is quiet while not under a load.

I have 320k on my g56. 125k on this clutch.

Ive rebuilt several manual trannies. Is this g56 hard to do? Do you need any special tools.

I really think my tranny is going bad.

I did check the fliud and its clean and red. Has 40 or 50k on this oil change. I do run lucas synthetic and have since new. I put in 6 qts of atf+4 and 1 quart lucas.

Since you have been into these trannies Tosh, I thought Id ask ya. It shifts great and seems to be working as good as ever. Might be the clutch is ready to come apart to.

Thanks
Carey

[haulin rv]

Where were you sourcing parts? Maybe I just need a spare truck;).

[ColoradoRVHauler]

Hey Haulin. Would a mercedees truck dealer have that retainer. When I got mine, It was one of 3 left in the nation. Thats really stupid not to be able to get this. Its a high wear item.

Carey

[haulin rv]

I found it at dealer in KY. List is $159 he helped out a bit and I am having it next day shipped. Don't think I am going to get inside it, I don't have the comfort factor to tear it down neither does the mechanic doing the r and r.

Think I may be looking for a low mile used one as a spare. But these things bring big $$$, seems $2200-3000 is about what you'll pay. Or you could do an Allison swap for $6000...........

[Tosch88]

I just sold my spare g56 for parts for $300 Sunday. It was missing the input cluster gear & 6th gear. Try LKQ for a used trans (they are all over the U.S.). I picked one up for $1800 with 29k on it (cheaper than ebay & the junk yard). Ya they don't give these trans away.

[ColoradoRVHauler]

Ive got a guy coming to meet me in a bit. He is gonna take the trailer to kamloops. I will head er home and see whats going on.

I'll second LKQ thats where I bought my rear diff. They were nice people to deal with.

Glad you found it haulin. Yeah that lil reatiner isnt to cheap.

They said one rv factory just raised the rate 10 cents. Now the rest have followed. The one I work for is passing it right to us. So now we will be 1.33 for a med size rv to canada and 1.25 for a medium sized rv to the US. That will help.

I think I will tear down the tranny and check it. From the noise its making its coming right out of the clutch area. I may just have a clutch that is about to grenade.

I got about 750 miles home. I hope she makes it. The noise isnt there when the truck is cold. Its only there after I get the clutch hot. If I slip the clutch good, it then makes a heck of a sound after.

Then when the clutch cools a bit the sound is less.

Be sure to toss in a quart of synthetic lucas engine oil stabilizer. Its the bottle right beside the normal lucas found at autozone. Its like 16-17 a quart. It will mix well with the atf+4. It really quiets down these g56 trannies. I think it helps to cushion more than what the atf can do.

I may be talking out my a$$ but I think the reason my tranny has worked so well is because of the lucas. I will find out here in a few days after I tear it apart.

Carey

[ColoradoRVHauler]

Here is a good price on a brand new in the crate one... 2600

http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/pts/1713596690.html

[ColoradoRVHauler]

Just for thought. I buy all my parts from adavantage dodge in farmington, nm.

They sell for 50% off of list price. Be sure and tell em you are calling from the internet site when you call em, thats how you get the discount.
http://advantagecdj.com/index.asp?s=6273

[Tosch88]

The only thing about synthetic oils is sometimes they will mask a minor problem. The synthetics they use these days are so good that metal on metal will work for quit awhile. I ran RP atf in my transmissions. When we tore the one down to replace the bearings (PM) we found that bearings had ate through the race & into the input cluster about .030. It was crazy that you couldn't hear it either. Same thing happened on 6th gear the bearing went out but because the syn. oil was so good it made no noise. Eventually causing 6th to bind & break in two. Syn. oils are good, maybe too good?

[haulin rv]

I've ran amsoil in mine until the last change, I did not have any and it needed to be done so I went back to the cheap stuff. I am going to change it back out again in a couple weeks. I found an "internet" parts source on the east coast and they'll sell a new trans for just over $3200.

That one in the crate says used and its 4wd, I need a 2wd.

[ColoradoRVHauler]

Here is a new input for 600. http://www.puredieselpower.com/catalog/brand-new-stock-input-shaft-for-the-g56-transmission-p-18768.html

I hear ya on the synthetic oils. I have a feeling I have an input shaft problem too. Boy since its now making noise I may really be screwed, uh, Tosch. Im anxious to get er apart and see what I got.

[haulin rv]

I'm getting a price and availability from Advantage right now. List over 5k they quoted $3756 plus $600 core. No new ones available, now its remans from Dodge. I think an extra truck needs to be in my future and this one needs to become a toy and get an Allison swapped in:D:D:eek::D:D

[ColoradoRVHauler]

lol I hear ya haulin.

I keep forgeting you have a 4x2. Do you think you have a tranny problem? It sounds like the retainer might be why you are having so many clutch problems.

Carey

[ColoradoRVHauler]

Well my savior showed up. Im home bound. Got paid for Elkhart to Miles City, Montana. My savior is doing the rest.

We had a laugh together. His truck has 320k on it. Never been touched. My truck has 320k on it and its fallin apart.

I anit givin er up yet.

Carey

[haulin rv]

I'm pretty sure the retainer has been my issue all along. As far as the transfer goes it is pretty quiet, its ha a little whine since about 100k but its stayed about the same.

[ColoradoRVHauler]

Well I just drove 635 miles home. I ran 2100-2200 rpms all the way, about 66-67 mph. It never made anymore noise than what it has been doing. And it made much less noise since I got rid of my trailer. Just a groan at 2000 rpms could be heard. A slight tick tick in low gears. It was a rubbing or slapping sound in low gears when I had the trailer. The sound is the speed of the crankshaft.

I had to drain some tranny fluid (couldnt sleep) and have a look see and I wanted to see the drain plug magnet. If I have any major failures the magnet will look like a mushroom full of metel. Especially after 600 miles. Well when I pulled the plug I have no more metal on the magnet than I ever have. I just have a small amount of metal dust same as always. Yes eventually if I have a tiny bit of dust it will add up to a large amount. But this tiny bit is totally normal and really nothin. The fuid was still a color of red. More like marroon, but thats totally normal after this many miles. It was free of any metal. I pulled the plug 10 mins after I shut it off after just driving 635 miles.

http://www.autoexpeditor.com/picture.php?albumid=4&pictureid=64

Id say I have a clutch about to go to hell.

Next question? Would you pull this tranny apart after seeing this tiny amount of metal on it? Yes it has 320k miles. But all of those 320k miles Lucas has been at work for me, so in reality I feel my tranny has about 100k miles of actual wear if I hadnt used Lucas. Yes I have that much faith in Lucas oil products.

This plug hasnt been removed since I changed the fluid last, 55646 miles ago.

Will be fun to get er all torn apart and see what carnage I have, by tomorrow night I should know the tale.

Now again my question? Should I dissasemble the tranny?

Thanks for your help guys!

Carey

PS the wind was hell. You guys should have seen the junkyard north of cheyenne. One flipped 35 foot 5er, 2 flipped mid 20's bumper pulls, and 2 flipped semis. Everything was totalled.. Had 70+ west winds all the way to cheyenne. Made my arm sore, lol

[Tosch88]

If you have the trans out, why not split the case to at least check the bearings? I myself would do it knowing the problems I had in the past but I am kind've a maintenance freak (so my friends tell me). I would just rather know its in good shape then find out on the side of the road.:D

[ColoradoRVHauler]

Got er all apart. Clutch hub came apart. This has allowed the input to waller around. Where the input shaft rides on the pilot bearing its grooved.

Decided I better check input cluster bearings. Trans comes apart fairly easy. I dont have a shop manual so it took a few to figure it needed to be stood up on its rear to come apart easiest.

All gears and synchros are real good. Synchros look brand new. Gears only have meshing marks, but no tooth wear. Looks amazing for 320k miles!

Input shaft bearing toasted, and main shaft bearing behind input has some wear. The back side of the input where that bearing rides is discolored but not grooved. The rest of the bearings have some wear, but I would expect that. I really should replace all the bearings in the trans.

I can prolly buy a wider pilot bearing or simply move it so it rides on a different spot on the input shaft, so I can prolly save input shaft.

I can knock out two bearing races real easy. But two are gonna suck since they are in blind holes. I would suspect I can rent a bearing puller to remove the bearings on the shafts. They are a press fit prolly, but not needing a big press like say a pinion shaft does. Just guessing on that though.

I have a question for ya Tosch. Most of the bearing races spin in the housing. They look to be made that way. They look to have a lip on there back side to keep em from falling out. Or my tranny housings are shot. Not sure which I have. Bad tranny housings or the bearing races are supposed to spin.

Where did you find bearings? Just guessing a bearing supply house might have em.

I think maybe I will go to a stronger clutch. Man I loved that clutch, is was super smooth and my trans was quiet. Hate to get rid of my napa clutch. Cant be having the hub in the disc coming apart though.

Throwout bearing was on it way out too. Bearing retainer looks real good. Its just barely shinney from wear. No grooves in it.

I would bet I have to buy the seals at the deaaler. I noticed the back side of the input has a seal too.

It would be cool to chat with ya on the phone Tosch. You have experience with these trannies. My number is 719-429-0768. If you have a few mins call me.

You are right on. These synthetic oils mask bearing problems. In an older tranny with regular oil my tranny would have been sceamin at me. This tranny has been stone quiet.

Carey

[haulin rv]

Standard Transmission is Tx has a complete bearing kit for under $300.

They got mine back together but something got bleeped up! It won't disengage all the way. Personally my feeling is that the pilot bearing got damaged and is keeping the input shaft spinning.

Anyone want a Dodge?

[ColoradoRVHauler]

Ok. I found a bearing kit. Man that took a while. They are hard to find!

281 bucks for the 5 bearings, races and seals. A 6-8 thousand shim pack needs to be added behind the input shaft bearing to tighen the tranny back up. I spoke with Richard at standard transmission.com

He has rebuilt a ton of g56 trannys. He ask me if all my bearings were brown and discolored. I said yes they sure are.

He said do not run atf+4 for heavy towing applications. He said they are have excellent luck with 30 weight syncromesh oil in the g56 tranny.

So I can rebuild this baby for 300 bucks. I can handle that. I can tell you anyone with basic mechanic skills can rebuild this tranny. Its simple.

He also said the races are supposed to spin in the housings. When they get hot they tighten up. Makes total since since the races are steel and the housing in alum.

Next is the clutch. I think I will go back with the valair, so I only need a disc and plate, prolly 300 bucks for that.

My only problem is my input shaft has about a 2-3 thousands groove in it from the pilot bearing.

The pilot bearing used in the south bend or valir flywheel is a 3/4x1 3/4x 1/2. A 5/8x 1 3/4 x 1/2 bearing is available.

I am going to contact a machine shop and see if they can turn down my input shaft end from 3/4 to 5/8ths. This would be just fine and be plenty strong since I only tow right around the 23000 gcvw rating. For you heavy haulers I think id buy a new input shaft.

You gotta remember that the factory uses a very weak needle bearing for a pilot bearing. So if I use a much stronger roller bearing that uses a 1/16th smaller shaft I would be fine. The factory pilot bearing prolly has a 1 or 2 thousands free play so I may be ok. I prolly got a 2-4 thousands free play. I feel I may have too much freeplay. I need to get a new bearing and see how I feel about the current fit before I have the input shaft turned.

Will let you guys no more as I find info for ya.

All of you need to switch to 30 weight snycromesh fluid. He said the 1000's of g56s that he's had switch to snycromesh no longer have the problems found with using atf. But like he said, just putting in sycromesh is not going to save a worn g56.

Carey

[ColoradoRVHauler]

Standard Transmission is Tx has a complete bearing kit for under $300.

They got mine back together but something got bleeped up! It won't disengage all the way. Personally my feeling is that the pilot bearing got damaged and is keeping the input shaft spinning.

Anyone want a Dodge?

Thanks haulin.. I just found that also. lol

[ColoradoRVHauler]

Hmm haulin... Now, did they remove the dmf adapter from the end of the crankshaft? This will cause a bind since the sb flywheel wouldnt be sitting flush to the flywheel, which in turn would not allow full disengaement.

The sb flywheel doesnt need the dmf adapter. The napa flywheel kit does.

[haulin rv]

I showed it to him to remove, guess I'll ask. The SB dual disk comes with a machined spacer that goes behind the flywheel so I'm guessing they did remove it. What sucks is now its already Thursday and I've been sitting since Monday. And if there are any parts needed now chances of being ready to roll for Monday doesn't look good.

[ColoradoRVHauler]

I showed it to him to remove, guess I'll ask. The SB dual disk comes with a machined spacer that goes behind the flywheel so I'm guessing they did remove it. What sucks is now its already Thursday and I've been sitting since Monday. And if there are any parts needed now chances of being ready to roll for Monday doesn't look good.

Yeah I hear ya haulin. man wish I was closer. Id do the whole clutch for ya. You have got to be effin sick of your clutch problems!

I have the same problem. I will be lucky to get all the parts rounded up by next mon/tue. Hell I will be lucky to be back to work till the following monday, and then will still have to make a 2 day drive to get to indy.

[haulin rv]

The correct one of these..

http://www.destroked.com/parts/adapter_plates.shtml#top

and one of these..

http://www.destroked.com/parts/flex_plates.shtml

and this too..

http://www.destroked.com/parts/electronics.shtml

and of course an Allison and I could be rolling again:D

[ColoradoRVHauler]

Id love to have a eaton 10 speed semi tranny in mine. But then by by 4x4.

Man as cheap I have been seeing late 90's single axle semi trucks that are under $10k thats what I should be doing.

My truck weighs 10k empty. I am lucky to avg 13 overall.

A well tuned 11.1 litre detroit could do 12 mpg overall.

Yep a t600 kw, with a 11.1 litre detroit turned to 275 hp. a 2.79 rear gear ratio with a 10 speed direct, with michelin wide based single tires. The 11.1 would need outfitted with pittsburg power products to get the mpg up to where my lil cummins is.

This would make a great rv haulin truck EXCEPT when it snows. Empty a semi truck is the worst pig ever. I spemd many 1000's of miles in snow, so im stuck with my 4x4 dually for now.

[haulin rv]

Well talked to Peter @ SB and we did some trouble shooting and tried a few things with no luck. So we came to the conclusion that something got screwed up on install, either a clutch disk got tweaked or the pilot bearing so out it will come again. Should know more tomorrow.

On a side note I talked to a local trans shop about throwing in a bearing kit, they we nuts on the cost, carry in the trans they wanted just under $800 for just labor to tear down and reassemble. The guys at Standard charge $300!

[shstransport]

The internet is putting the informed in a good place and the uninformed still pay full price but as time goes on either you match the price or you go out of business

[ColoradoRVHauler]

Well talked to Peter @ SB and we did some trouble shooting and tried a few things with no luck. So we came to the conclusion that something got screwed up on install, either a clutch disk got tweaked or the pilot bearing so out it will come again. Should know more tomorrow.

On a side note I talked to a local trans shop about throwing in a bearing kit, they we nuts on the cost, carry in the trans they wanted just under $800 for just labor to tear down and reassemble. The guys at Standard charge $300!

Yeah, the guys at standard are super nice. I had a few questions about my tranny and the sales guy put me right thru to the guy that builds there g56s..

Wish you luck on the clutch haulin. It sucks you are having so many troubles. Man were gonna have to put a zipper on the tranny, lol as many times as that baby has been out.

[Tosch88]

Did you buy the hydro upgrade for SBC?


Standard Transmission is Tx has a complete bearing kit for under $300.

They got mine back together but something got bleeped up! It won't disengage all the way. Personally my feeling is that the pilot bearing got damaged and is keeping the input shaft spinning.

Anyone want a Dodge?

[h2oskibumz]

Good logic Tosch, but yeah he bought the hydraulic upgrade first because we THOUGHT his previous unit was failing...

Of course he later learned that the massive chatter had simply whipped the fluid into a lather... He learned this because new SB Hydraulics worked well for 600 miles and then (eventually) the vibration whipped THAT fluid into a lather as well and IT did the same thing...

The good news: Bleed it and all was well... though probably only for a while. Since its been sitting and bled again, THAT part should be good to go...

[ColoradoRVHauler]

I found the fix for my grooved input shaft from the pilot bearing.

http://www.southbendclutch.com/kevlarbushing.html

If SB doesnt have one my size I can also get one from zoom clutch. Zooms is like 1.38 and I need it 1.25, so I can have it turned to 1.25 or have a shop machine my flywheel to 1.38.

Gotta love new technology.

Zoom claims these new kevlar bushings last 5 times longer than anything made from steel. Man thats what I need. The pilot bearing is one of our weak points in our clutch systems.

On the clutch it still looks brand new except that the hub has pretty much detatched from the disc. I will have to post a pic tomorow. I paid like 484 from napa for it. I found that it has a 12 month warranty.. I found my reciept too.. Maybe I will get lucky. I bought it July 2009.

So Maybe I will go with the next heavier duty clutch from napa.

Got the races pulled from the trans housing today and that was simple once I found the correct puller at the rental store.. I also got all except for the input and front countershaft bearing pulled off and again rented the puller at the rental store. Those two bearings I will have to take to the tranny shop and have em do em for me once I get the new parts.

Tomorrow I will get the housings cleaned, and Im taking the weekend off. Will deal with this project monday. Will have the bearing kit on tuesday. So If I get the clutch warrantied I will only be out maybe 500 to get er all fixed up again.

That fits right into an rv haulers budget, lol

Carey

[haulin rv]

Did you buy the hydro upgrade for SBC?
Yes I did.

Well as of this morning my truck isn't even back on the lift. So getting over to South Bend Clutch for any needed parts isn't going to happen today. At this rate I may have to go fill out a job app at Walmart.

[haulin rv]

1PM still sitting outside. It was supposed to be out so I could get with SB and figure what went wrong. But sure looks like that wont happen today. My patience is fading fast and now I'm getting pissed.

[haulin rv]

Well its back out, I have not seen the clutch dis-assembled yet but I didn't see any obvious problems either. I take some pictures tomorrow and post them and see if you guys see anything we are missing.

[ColoradoRVHauler]

Cool haulin. Be anxious to know what happened. I drilled a 2 inch hole in my bell housing way back when I first done my clutch. That way Im able to inspect the operation of my clutch. I used a hole saw and its to one side between the ribs. It wouldnt hurt a thing to do yours this way too. That way you could see whats happening in there.

There is very little strength lost on the bottom of a bell housing. If a round hole is drilled, the housing will never know it.

I will post a pic. give me a few.

Carey

[haulin rv]

Thanks I'd like to see that.

[ColoradoRVHauler]

Here you go. Sorry, never got around to pressure washing my cases today.

http://www.autoexpeditor.com/picture.php?albumid=4&pictureid=66


http://www.autoexpeditor.com/picture.php?albumid=4&pictureid=65

Ive prolly got 250k on since I drilled this hole. Like I said, as long as its round, it wont create a spot for the case to crack.

I used a 2 inch hole saw.

Carey

[ColoradoRVHauler]

I can lay under my truck and use a little LED flashlight and see exactly how the clutch is working. I never have the wife do it, she might just put it in gear and run my a$$ over, lol

I have my kid work the clutch, :D He needs me..

[ColoradoRVHauler]

Got the clutch warrantied no problem. The parts guys said didnt matter what happened its less than 12 months. Pulled the rear main and the housing yesterday. I have a small leak at the rear main and a small leak at the corner of the housing and oil pan. Will put a new oring at the cam too.

Today I washed the housings, the adapter on the engine. Got the rear seal and cam o ring ordered.

I found a heavy duty roller bearing that I can put behind the original. This will relocate where the bearing sits on the input shaft. Might as well use whats left on the input before I go investing 150 for a kevlar bearing or a new 600 input shaft.

I will run pennzoil synchromesh fluid for a trip out to allow the trans to rebreak in. Then when home will put in royal purple synchromax. The pennzoil is cheap and that will work good to allow break in and to get er flushed out.

So far my costs are,

320 for trans bearings and shims.
45 for trans oil.
66 for rear seal and gasket.
5 for cam o ring.
15 for pilot bearing.
60 for tool rentals including trans jack.
100 prolly to have 3 bearings pulled and replaced in the trans since they need pressed.
25 prolly for misc sealer, loctite and antisieze.

So will be into the clutch, rebult trans and new rear main for around 650.

Will change the rear diff fluid too. so 100 there. 8 quarts of valvoline synthetic 75-140. Will retorque carrier main caps to 200lbs too.

By about wed/thur I should have it all ready for reassemble. Wont have bearings till late tue.

Once I get everything in order I will post a pic before I get it all assembled. Ive got quite a collection of parts layed out now, lol

Now the next biggest challange is getting all back together properly.

Monday while waiting for parts I am going to adjust my valves and pull all the fuel lines and retorque all of my fuel injector tubes.

Hopefully will be rolling by next saturday or sunday.



Carey

[haulin rv]

Well I have the clutch here and I can not see anything wrong with it. Now the pilot bearing is bad, it feels like a ratchet. But to be on the safe side I am road tripping to SB this morning. They said they could check it out and make sure nothing is tweaked and they will also put the new bearing in.

[haulin rv]

Update

So they found one disk bent and of course the pilot bearing was toast.

[ColoradoRVHauler]

It was probably installed wrong, uh haulin?

[haulin rv]

Yep. I figure my problems have been the missed bad retainer since day one.

But if things all fall in place the dodge will be retired from daily duty within a couple months and become a spare truck and daily driver.

[haulin rv]

Well its back together and functional. I figure I need to drive it a couple days local before venturing out with the trailer. The dual disk clutch does transmit some more harmonics into the transmission and is a bit noisy at idle. Engagement and clutch pedal feel is about like stock,and its been a LONG time since I was able to start out in second without chatter!

[Tosch88]

Glad to hear you back up & running. The dual disks are known for idle chatter. I been down for 2 weeks waiting on my truck to be finished so I know how ya feel.

[haulin rv]

When we gonna see some pics of the new rig??

[Tosch88]

Whenever I get it back from the mechanics, I haven't seen it since I picked it up. I'm glad I got a good deal because it had a lot of small issue's that are adding up. I put $5k in repairs into my buying budget just it case but didn't think I would use it all. My good deal is turning into an expensive truck. Hopefully have it back Wed. as I have a load that needs to get done and a trailer that I have to drop off.

[ColoradoRVHauler]

Glad you got it running. Those guys should be pros at dodge clutches now, lol

Yeah even my single disc had a loud chatter at idle. I dont think it hurts anything. Its just harmonics.

Good Luck with the new clutch!

I got my bearing kit today and dropped off the counter and input shaft at the tranny shop to have the rest of the bearings pressed off and on.

My factory bearings were made in poland. These are made in Japan. The japanese are known for making good quality bearings so maybe this set will be ok. I was real thankful they werent made in China.

The local tranny guy here said no US bearing supplier even makes a bearing for this trans. All of the gears, shafts and synchros are made by Eaton. I found that odd.

Its a mecedees tranny with eaton hard parts. Polish bearings. Man what a mash of companies.. lol

Carey

[haulin rv]

My plan is to pull it again after summer and get it to standard in tx for freshen up. That will be a good excuse tohang out in tx for a couple days.

[ColoradoRVHauler]

Should have my new bearings done in a bit. Will start the build tonight. Dam weather. Its snowin in the mtns. Cold here, 45. Supposed to be 28-30 the next few nights. We never have spring. It goes from winter straight to summer around here.

[haulin rv]

Clutch is working, still have what feels like a chatter so I am going to guess I have some internal issues brewing. Oh and today I ran a mile to get some paint and puked a water pump. Man I hate this truck, can't wait to get the Nissan all dialed in and try it on the road.